Please add to/ comment on the concept in Neil’s paper that when evolutionary theory and the Genesis account are brought together in an integrated view then suffering becomes part of the creative process as exemplified by predation being an essential component of natural selection.
1 John Allegro once said "The Jews worshipped God because they believed He created the world. The Gnostics loved God because they believed he didn't create the world. The Great Church sought a compromise and is still searching."
This gets to the heart of the problem. There may be evidence that convinces people there is an intelligent mind behind all things but is that mind a moral one? Evolutionary cruelty doesn't bother world-denying faiths as salvation is escape from this world. However for the Judeo-Christian tradition that is not an option.
2 Neil's "package deal" has pointed us in the only direction where there is a chance of an answer to this issue. Therefore, in general terms I agree with him. However i have good days and bad days! On the former I can assent to this position and have used a theological version of the Red Queen principle in debates with atheists/humanists. But on bad days like John McEnroe used to say to Umpires - "You cannot be serious!" I do not find this topic at all easy!
3 I am so pleased that Neil used the term "anguish" as anyone who has been immersed (and that is the operative word) in the details of evolutionary theory and the details of natural selection as I have been for many years will find that an appropriate word. When I read many Christian apologists I find myself saying "where is the angst?" We can only come to this thorny issue with humility, honesty, and faith. Only once we have shown that we understand how the natural world truly is can we begin to offer or construct a way ahead. I find that is often lacking in Christian discourse(although not true of Neil)
4 The question implies that Neil brought together evolutionary theory and the Genesis account in an "integrated view". No he didn't! And that was not his aim. He majored on the science part of the question with theological possibilities raised.
However it is obvious that if we take Darwin seriously then we will need some detailed re-interpretation of classic texts and traditional theological formulations. That is the task that lies ahead
May I give my warm thanks to Russell Moffat? He has grasped my position entirely. In particular, I empathize with his Points 3 & 4. As to 3, "anguish/angst" are minimal descriptions of the revulsion one must feel at the agonies which sentient non-human beings suffer in the natural world; but the Darwinian explanation is the only one which doesn't make that suffering simply wanton. (It's interesting that Darwin himself, in his compassion, could lose sight of his own explanation, and need to be reminded of it by Asa Gray.) And on 4, Russell has read me correctly: for me, the Genesis accounts are beautifully poetic products of their times, but don't touch at all on what Chris Southgate tellingly calls "The groaning of Creation".
These are insightful comments from all and a very worthy start to this important discussion. I admit to the question being poorly worded in that 'Genesis account' was meant to relate primarily to the spiritual themes that the writer was stating about the relationship between the Creator and creation, especially humankind. Neil and Russell emphasise rightly that given current scientific understandings there is a task ahead of theological reflection and revision.
What spiritual themes regarding the relationship of God with man, man with the rest of creation, and man with man are the first to bring to the table, and how should this process be carried forward in our own setting?
Where have other forums - like-minded on-line communities or physical bodies - got to in this endeavour (such as the Christians in Science in the UK or the BioLogos forum in the USA)? It would be good to share thinking and build on the work of others if that is possible?
As touched on in Neil's paper, do we now need to learn more of the historical thinking that led to the development of the current Christian theological narrative and seek to understand if/how new interpretations/ understanding of Scripture link to these?
Finally, reflecting on suffering in creation especially on the fate of recently extinct hominoids such as Neanderthals, Denisovans etc with which we probably shared community/ the planet/ interbred but outlived or outcompeted, we do need adopt a mantle of humility regarding our place in the created order. But, what else does our increasing knowledge of these evolutionary cousins lead us to?
Please add to these questions or pick up other themes in this area as you feel able.
